Can we have a rigid rule for 4def situations?

[EdinsonCavani]

I believe that strikers are not going to follow this rule because there's no real punishment for who's going to break the rule during an official match.

Before making this thread I watched a lot of FeedMe matches and frequently the dominant team get a lot of 4defs by opponents.

Example taking a random 1div match

https://thehax.pl/forum/powtorki.php?na ... 1e58a3884b
2:30
2:56
4:10

Every Slappers' offensive phase for the first 2 minutes was conditioned by 3def violations (blocking, positioning on the same line etc.)

Yesterday I got like 6 3def violations in 20 seconds (between positioning and blocks) while my team was attacking on the result of 1-0 for us and it stopped only because I paused blaming that behaviour

That's why I'm asking to admins to take care about this situation

My idea is:

- Teams violating the 3def rule for 4-6 times (violations of little importance) will keep the result but the striker will be banned for 1 matchday
- If a team violates the rule for more than 5 times (at different times [not if he does 3 violations in 10 seconds]) in one half will lose 3-0 and the striker will be banned for 2 matchdays
- If a team violates the rule for 4-6 times (but 50% of violations have a huge gravity) the team will lose 3-0 and the striker will be banned for 2 matchdays
- If a team violates the rule for 8+ times (with 50% or more of violations with huge gravity) the team will lose 3-0 and the striker will be banned for 3 matchdays
- If one striker makes only one 3def violation keeping that on purpose and for a long time (3+ seconds) will be banned for 1 matchday -> example https://giphy.com/gifs/W6La0Pol8VeOYd1owY but his team will keep the result

Tell me what you think about it and if it can help the gameplay to be more smooth

[xSha]

I would recommend using a map in FM officials which has a line on both sides that shows where "mid" starts. The rule as it is now is too vague since everybody seems to interpret the position of this invisible border differently. Adding this line would not prevent ALL possible 3-def violations, but it would certainly prevent future discussions regarding strikers attacking DMs in the mid-zone. I don't know about other leagues and tournaments, but I don't see a reason not to use a map like this in FM, since FM already has an official mid-zone line (see the picture below)

Picture from FeedMe Rulebook:

Spoiler: Show

[Gimenez20]

If I said it before the season started, a script should be made to detect 4def, and nobody wanted it. Now with a map yes?

[saviola]

A map is easier to integrate, a script would have to be made available on all hosts (and for a script it would have to be validated etc.). I agree that this would be nice. I don't play a lot so I can't say that I know how much 3def violations are happening in fs, but as a GK I'm always getting distracted when my striker gets really aggressive (I'm looking at you, benja! and Tunti too, back in the day ).

In the end it would be nice for strikers to have the attitude "better safe than sorry" when it comes to violations, rather than "it's fine as I don't violate it too hard / too often" as it currently is the case (understandably, because it's not punished).

[Vidalo]

I agree with xsha, put a line like I saw on futsal map and it's done

[Hannes]

Im not completely opposed to changes but you should be aware that a map with a rigid defzone line would change the game as a whole much.
It makes things less dynamic and fluid for the striker who cant even pick up lose balls or passes from own team mates then.

[xSha]

The striker would still be allowed to cross the line and play like he used to play, this line only indicates the area from where on the striker is allowed to touch the DM 100% of the time

[Gary]

If somebody is able to create a pitch with a line highlighting the defzone, then it's something we could probably test with a Funcup.

I tried in the past, but I could only find code for the default Big pitch - not sure where code is entered for lines etc,. Here is the link - https://github.com/haxball/haxball-issu ... ms/big.hbs

[wroz]

Everything would stay exactly as it is now, strikers will be able to cross the line, 3def-zone will still be defined by DM's position etc. This line will help a lot in a situations when the attacking team is far away from the goal, passing around near the mid-line. A lot of times DMs are surprised they get blocked and interrupted, even though they're not in the 3def-zone anymore.

[Mamba]

And it would also get rid of delusional people who still don't know where 3def starts because theres plenty of scrubs who cry even if you touch them on mid line.

[Gimenez20]

A map is easier to integrate, a script would have to be made available on all hosts (and for a script it would have to be validated etc.). I agree that this would be nice. I don't play a lot so I can't say that I know how much 3def violations are happening in fs, but as a GK I'm always getting distracted when my striker gets really aggressive (I'm looking at you, benja! and Tunti too, back in the day ).

In the end it would be nice for strikers to have the attitude "better safe than sorry" when it comes to violations, rather than "it's fine as I don't violate it too hard / too often" as it currently is the case (understandably, because it's not punished).

Ye, but dont solve all problems.
What happen when the defence team has the ball in 3def position? Can the ST break the 3def rule when the ball is in 3def position and the defence team has the ball to go counterattack?

I Guess that all wont be solve. I will need 3def code to solve it and change 3def rules.

PD: Sry for my bad english

[Mamba]

Logically the team that has the ball is not defending tho are they? Especially if counter attack started ^^

[xSha]

Hello everybody,

I created two versions of the map to see how it would actually look in-game

The first one:

Spoiler: Show

The second one:

Spoiler: Show

Like in the rulebook, the distance from the center of the circle to the line is equal to the diameter of the circle

For if you want to try out the maps yourself: http://haxmaps.com/map/10626 (gapless) & http://haxmaps.com/map/10624 (gaps)

Let me know what you guys think and feel free to leave behind suggestions

PS: To clarify things for everybody, the 3-def rule itself won't change. The line is just there to highlight where the mid-zone starts. Strikers are allowed to cross this line like they are used to and can only take advantage of the mid-zone rule when the DM actually touches the line or has fully crossed the line and therefore is in the mid-zone

[DyingLagger]

the league can make their own official custom map which is the same original Big map but with only one addition, a line that can't be crossed by the 4th player (it's not just a line, it's actually blocks the 4th from crossing it). i saw some fustal maps using this and it works just fine. it can be the perfect solution if you can trust the hosts they'll use the official map and won't edit it for some reason.

[B4D4SS]

This is a really good idea, especially for new players maybe watching the stream who are confused whats happening. Although I never realised just how far back the line was in the rulebooks picture and the map xSha made. Im sure in the old HCL rulebook and League1 rulebook written by Fritz, the line was not so far back? Because all those matches where played with 4def tackles not so far back as that line.


Under those rules, this would be considered a 3def violation:



If the line is so far back, teams could just keep possession forever, with nothing defenders can do to apply pressure, because the DM would have so much space.


I would put the 3def line here to be honest, just based on experience of which line gave us better gameplay over the years:



On the 5th stripe from the sides that have a little quarter stripe in the corners, so 5th stripe on North wall for red side and South for blue side. Not only does this prevent DMs sitting way far back and hoarding the ball with little the defence can do to apply pressure, it makes the midfield battle space larger, which tactically gives us a higher skill ceiling. If you have to keep possession more by having a superior midfield, over just standing really far back to keep the ball, thats better for the gameplay imo.

My 3def lines makes the midfield battle area 40% bigger over the FM rulebook and xSha map lines.