About extrapolation

[tim]

Good evening everyone, if you think about it, let's talk a little bit about extrapolation, which is surely the main cause of haxball today, as you could have seen at some point we came down to extrapolation of 50 maximum, and players that I won't mention, were not happy and complained 90% wanted to stop the game because of that, but strangely when asked today their level of extrapolation they all say that 'they are around 70-80, or even less, how it is possible to complain if some players used this level of extrapolation and when the game was limited to 50 the players cried.

As you know with the update there was the command / kick_ratelimit to avoid the macro, so I thought why not an order (which we will surely never have) and free to the players to do it but for example in official terms, set up the command for a limited extrapolation on all the players present in the room, for example 100 maximum, and each player is free to set his level of extrapolation without exceeding the limit.

(sorry for the shit english)

Your opinions on this subject?

[NB: I take into account and I know that it will be very difficult to be able to install this kind of control on a game that dies every day]

[Hakut]

[supernatural]

[Pedy]

I was against the extrapolation change because i was foolish, it was only once i tried playing with lower extra again that i realized it is bogus.
First of all I dont believe extrapolation is bad, but there are players who are abusing it with absurd values that isnt even fun to play on which is one of the reason im now playing on 50 extrapolation because the gameplay is different but funner.

[saviola]

[…] set up the command for a limited extrapolation on all the players present in the room, for example 100 maximum, and each player is free to set his level of extrapolation without exceeding the limit.

This is not possible due to the client-side nature of extrapolation. Limiting the kick rate is possible from the server (because the server can just refuse any more kicks from the client beyond the limit), limiting extrapolation is not (because the client can lie to the server about how much extrapolation it uses).

[Anddy]

https://github.com/haxball/haxball-issues/issues/820

Basro added that on feature request on 29 july

[supernatural]

[…] set up the command for a limited extrapolation on all the players present in the room, for example 100 maximum, and each player is free to set his level of extrapolation without exceeding the limit.

This is not possible due to the client-side nature of extrapolation. Limiting the kick rate is possible from the server (because the server can just refuse any more kicks from the client beyond the limit), limiting extrapolation is not (because the client can lie to the server about how much extrapolation it uses).

It is possible. Server can check players extrapolation on every game tick and if its more than 100 it will decrease it to maximum possible. This will prevent bypassing limit.

I use 60 so I don't care. People who plays with more than 150 should think about this not me. hehe

[saviola]

It is possible. Server can check players extrapolation on every game tick and if its more than 100 it will decrease it to maximum possible. This will prevent bypassing limit.

No, the server cannot check the extrapolation. It can only ask the client "what extrapolation are you using?" and then ask the client "would you please decrease extrapolation?", but the client can choose to give a wrong answer to the first and ignore the second.

I guess in the end it would still kind of work, but it is only a matter of time until people will work with modified clients that bypass the limit.

[supernatural]

It is possible. Server can check players extrapolation on every game tick and if its more than 100 it will decrease it to maximum possible. This will prevent bypassing limit.

No, the server cannot check the extrapolation. It can only ask the client "what extrapolation are you using?" and then ask the client "would you please decrease extrapolation?", but the client can choose to give a wrong answer to the first and ignore the second.

I guess in the end it would still kind of work, but it is only a matter of time until people will work with modified clients that bypass the limit.

I already know how to bypass limit with modified client, the solution I recommend is for the modifying clients actually. For example, the extrapolation value storing in LocalStorage so if game checks localstorage>extrapolation>value every 1 second and see if its > than 100. It will decrease it to maximum possible. The logic is simple and it is possible.

And also it checks, when u join room, the game gets your extrapolation from localstorage value. So checking it on every tick won't be hard.

[saviola]

Yes, but all of what you write happens on the client, not on the server. And the client can be modified, I could just remove the check client-side and bypass the limit.

[supernatural]

Yes, but all of what you write happens on the client, not on the server. And the client can be modified, I could just remove the check client-side and bypass the limit.

Since server will check your extrapolation it can store it in server temporary for the time you stay in the room. For example, you join my room, server gets your extrapolation and streamed it to me. If you change it somehow, it will be not same as I have. And you'll get desynchronization. And I think Basro is capable to do that. And also you know there is much more backend file and code, the game is not just only game-min.js

tldr; all he needs to do is storing extrapolation values in server > room (temporary) just like kick rate limit value.

[Faky]

I like extrapolation.

I like the games responsiveness and fluidity.

Moreover, extrapolation and the game is not the same on different PC and setup.

On my main gaming pc I am using 160 with 144hz.

If you like slower feels, you can still use slow extrapolation but that is your choice.