Haxball Is static

[Nocke]

The solution isn't to go back to flash. 4v4 Big is dying out as it's the same old same old, it's just not fun, extrapolation has ruined it. I've been playing futsal over the past months, maybe almost the past year. it's definitely more fun like Laki said, it actually involves passing most of the time instead of spamming....

I do think that if FM implements some sort of Futsal side-league, or turn the 3v3 division into a Futsal one, that it would be welcomed by most people. Looking at the 3v3 division right now, there's only 12 teams in it, with just ONE Div1 team - and that's my team. So, the 3v3 scene is kind of, dying out, if it's not already dead. No offense to anyone still playing 3v3 competitively, HCL and what not, I still play in 3v3 pub rooms like luck's from time to time. But yeah, HTML is both the present and the near future, we just need to be smart about how we make use of it.

[Mey]

The solution isn't to go back to flash. 4v4 Big is dying out as it's the same old same old, it's just not fun, extrapolation has ruined it. I've been playing futsal over the past months, maybe almost the past year. it's definitely more fun like Laki said, it actually involves passing most of the time instead of spamming....

I do think that if FM implements some sort of Futsal side-league, or turn the 3v3 division into a Futsal one, that it would be welcomed by most people. Looking at the 3v3 division right now, there's only 12 teams in it, with just ONE Div1 team - and that's my team. So, the 3v3 scene is kind of, dying out, if it's not already dead. No offense to anyone still playing 3v3 competitively, HCL and what not, I still play in 3v3 pub rooms like luck's from time to time. But yeah, HTML is both the present and the near future, we just need to be smart about how we make use of it.

Well I don’t think ure right about the futsal thing, for myself I’d say that if the league would somehow turn into a futsal mode, I would retire and won’t come back (till now I couldn’t do that but futsal just gives boredom to my life)

[pkppp]

B4D4SS I don't know why you are so mad because of HTML. I don't understand what the fuck is your problem with it. Seriously, guys, feed me, fucking community someone please tell me why this guy hates that HTML so fucking much? If you think this extrapolation stuff has destroyed the game, well my friend it's client side and you can turn off extrapolation and play just like u did in flash. If you say there is input lag bla bla, well Basro released a fix for it too. So what's the point of crying all the time? I just don't understand why you are the one always complain about HTML. Just tell us what you exactly want, seriously. Yeah "maybe" you were playing smoother on Flash but how about others? Turks, Jews was playing 70-150 ping and it wasn't so smooth for them. And I see the gameplay in Flash, what the fuck is it actually? You guys was playing like elephants. Everyone was like fat and can't even turn around, losing against retards who needs to think 5 seconds before pass his teammates. Dude HTML is next level shit. HTML is revolutionary. HTML is the reason your slow working elephant brain started to work a bit faster finally. Just stop complaining about HTML, get fucking better.

WTF are you talking about? Did I mention anything else except GAMEPLAY SKILL CEILING? HTML is better in every other way except for extrapolation (not the main problem) and gameplay skill ceiling because of the sharper movement (the absolute biggest problem).

You might think its instantly better to have a quicker game, but that shows you haven't thought it through unless you can give me some reasons except for "quicker always is better you elephant".


The speeding up of the player turning has done this to the gameplay:

- Made it WAY easier to do the same skills that were possible in Flash, you needed excellent tempo/timing in Flash to pull off those moves that everybody can do much easier now.

- Made those same skills WAY less effective, because you can recover from being out of position in HTML so fast, whereas in Flash if you committed to a tackle and misread it, you went flying. You would open up more space in defence/midfield or wherever you got juked. This has also made defending WAY easier, which is why everybody in defence looks the same if they're good or great like jasko mentioned, because the margin for error is too big - being out of position doesn't get punished like in Flash.

- Made quick passing WAY easier, just like skills. In Flash you would even see some div1 players who weren't capable of constantly giving their DM good passes from the centre attack position, now every Div2 player does it without fail. It was HARDER TO DO but also MORE REWARDING, for the same reason as above, out of position players don't get let off the hook in Flash, they get punished hard, making it clear the difference between good defenders or great defenders.

- Made all spams unpredictable and uncontrollable. In Flash you were 100% in control of a spam, now in HTML you are about 60% in control and the other 40% is luck. Some spam goals are simply impossible to defend in HTML if you get unlucky, whereas in Flash every single spam goal conceded could've been stopped if the defender was not out of position/read the spam properly. Like Splat mentioned it also affects the midfield battles massively, where being smarter/more skilled in midfield would put you in a position where you have the advantage going into a spam, in Flash it would mean you win that spam every time. In HTML you can earn yourself an advantaged position to start the spam and still lose it cus of random/luck factor.

- Made timing tackles perfectly almost irrelevant. How many times have you made tackles that you would've reached in Flash 100% and don't reach it in HTML? Its because even though you completely read the opponents intentions, you are not getting rewarded with a tackle for that. Why? Again the margin of error is too big, you can get outsmarted and read by somebody rushing towards you, but all you do is have to change direction again and they wont reach the ball, because you are NOT PUNISHED FOR CHANGING YOUR MIND IN THE LAST MOMENT, cus the extra movement doesn't add extra time (cus its too sharp/no delay). So theres players like Caccapupu who almost never got outsmarted by people rushing him, not being rewarded for this extra skill/brain he has, because in HTML average Div2 GK who get read often can just change his direction in last second and almost never get cleanly tackled. So whats the difference between Caccapupu and Div2 GK now? Almost nothing. Because of low skill ceiling. No difference anymore between best and just good players.


Theres obviously more aspects than just those 5 because changing how sharp you turn makes a difference to absolutely every situation in the game, but I don't want to write an entire Bible on this right now.


TL;DR = Sharper movement on HTML makes all skills/passing way easier and margin for error when you are out of position massive compared to Flash. This means much lower skill ceiling = Everybody looks/plays more the same.

WALLAH I DIDN'T READ ITS SO LONG LIKE MY DICK SORRY

[Pedy]

Futsal is more popular because it is simply more casual.
Of course there will be more casual players than competitive players.

[Nocke]

Well I don’t think ure right about the futsal thing, for myself I’d say that if the league would somehow turn into a futsal mode, I would retire and won’t come back (till now I couldn’t do that but futsal just gives boredom to my life)

If the league "would somehow turn into a futsal mode", then that would be because the majority of players would prefer futsal over big at that point in time. If that happens, then it would mean that futsal was more than welcomed. I don't see why you would retire and not come back just because of futsal, since the map actually 'invites' you to try out new passes, new tactics and so on, because I'm sure you haven't played it as long as you've played big. Now, I'm not saying that I want FM to turn into a futsal league, I'm just recommending adding a futsal division on the side, maybe replacing the 3v3 one as essentially no division 1 team plays in it.

Futsal is more popular because it is simply more casual.
Of course there will be more casual players than competitive players.

This is true, futsal is way more popular than big but the quality of players is also lower in comparison to FM as it is more casual like you said. However there are some players that started from futsal, still play futsal and now play big as well - I have two of them in my team, Girl and Madness. Players from FM would make the futsal map even more competitive. Also regarding what Laki said about there being a ranked system in some leagues - that is true, it works through a discord bot called ELO. 8 players queue up, 2 players are chosen randomly as captains, they pick other players from the queue, and there's even a discord bot that generates hosts. Pretty cool if you ask me.

In the end, I don't see why a futsal division shouldn't be introduced, possibly even replacing the 3v3 division. Again, the 3v3 division is really casual, it only has one Div1 team in it, and every time we play, we play as if it's a pub game. Now, if we want more competition, then I suggest scratching the 3v3 division and replacing it with futsal. There are FM players that like futsal, I don't see why not. It's also a chance to freshen the league up, to try out something new and possibly, hopefully, exciting and fun.

[Tsubasa]

Actually futsal is getting more and more competitive. Many experienced players took or are taking part in teams and from season to season there are more team registrations. My former league had recently 25+ registrations and ofc there are still casual players, but everyone started somewhere. If you want some fresh wind in here, maybe fm should get closer to the futsal sector. There is still some hype with many active players

[Unai]

B4D4SS I don't know why you are so mad because of HTML. I don't understand what the fuck is your problem with it. Seriously, guys, feed me, fucking community someone please tell me why this guy hates that HTML so fucking much? If you think this extrapolation stuff has destroyed the game, well my friend it's client side and you can turn off extrapolation and play just like u did in flash. If you say there is input lag bla bla, well Basro released a fix for it too. So what's the point of crying all the time? I just don't understand why you are the one always complain about HTML. Just tell us what you exactly want, seriously. Yeah "maybe" you were playing smoother on Flash but how about others? Turks, Jews was playing 70-150 ping and it wasn't so smooth for them. And I see the gameplay in Flash, what the fuck is it actually? You guys was playing like elephants. Everyone was like fat and can't even turn around, losing against retards who needs to think 5 seconds before pass his teammates. Dude HTML is next level shit. HTML is revolutionary. HTML is the reason your slow working elephant brain started to work a bit faster finally. Just stop complaining about HTML, get fucking better.

WTF are you talking about? Did I mention anything else except GAMEPLAY SKILL CEILING? HTML is better in every other way except for extrapolation (not the main problem) and gameplay skill ceiling because of the sharper movement (the absolute biggest problem).

You might think its instantly better to have a quicker game, but that shows you haven't thought it through unless you can give me some reasons except for "quicker always is better you elephant".


The speeding up of the player turning has done this to the gameplay:

- Made it WAY easier to do the same skills that were possible in Flash, you needed excellent tempo/timing in Flash to pull off those moves that everybody can do much easier now.

- Made those same skills WAY less effective, because you can recover from being out of position in HTML so fast, whereas in Flash if you committed to a tackle and misread it, you went flying. You would open up more space in defence/midfield or wherever you got juked. This has also made defending WAY easier, which is why everybody in defence looks the same if they're good or great like jasko mentioned, because the margin for error is too big - being out of position doesn't get punished like in Flash.

- Made quick passing WAY easier, just like skills. In Flash you would even see some div1 players who weren't capable of constantly giving their DM good passes from the centre attack position, now every Div2 player does it without fail. It was HARDER TO DO but also MORE REWARDING, for the same reason as above, out of position players don't get let off the hook in Flash, they get punished hard, making it clear the difference between good defenders or great defenders.

- Made all spams unpredictable and uncontrollable. In Flash you were 100% in control of a spam, now in HTML you are about 60% in control and the other 40% is luck. Some spam goals are simply impossible to defend in HTML if you get unlucky, whereas in Flash every single spam goal conceded could've been stopped if the defender was not out of position/read the spam properly. Like Splat mentioned it also affects the midfield battles massively, where being smarter/more skilled in midfield would put you in a position where you have the advantage going into a spam, in Flash it would mean you win that spam every time. In HTML you can earn yourself an advantaged position to start the spam and still lose it cus of random/luck factor.

- Made timing tackles perfectly almost irrelevant. How many times have you made tackles that you would've reached in Flash 100% and don't reach it in HTML? Its because even though you completely read the opponents intentions, you are not getting rewarded with a tackle for that. Why? Again the margin of error is too big, you can get outsmarted and read by somebody rushing towards you, but all you do is have to change direction again and they wont reach the ball, because you are NOT PUNISHED FOR CHANGING YOUR MIND IN THE LAST MOMENT, cus the extra movement doesn't add extra time (cus its too sharp/no delay). So theres players like Caccapupu who almost never got outsmarted by people rushing him, not being rewarded for this extra skill/brain he has, because in HTML average Div2 GK who get read often can just change his direction in last second and almost never get cleanly tackled. So whats the difference between Caccapupu and Div2 GK now? Almost nothing. Because of low skill ceiling. No difference anymore between best and just good players.


Theres obviously more aspects than just those 5 because changing how sharp you turn makes a difference to absolutely every situation in the game, but I don't want to write an entire Bible on this right now.


TL;DR = Sharper movement on HTML makes all skills/passing way easier and margin for error when you are out of position massive compared to Flash. This means much lower skill ceiling = Everybody looks/plays more the same.

The only people who could possibly disagree with this are those who only became relevant when extrapolation was added.

[taziek]

5v5 huge

in fact I think it's a good idea

[Wenom]

6-6 huge 2 def rules, cuz goal line so small even for 4 def

[jasko]

I actually don't think it'd be a bad idea to replace the 3v3 league with the futsal league, current format isn't really good as it's not really taken seriously and if that's the case we may as well put futsal instead. Though, if admins want to keep 3v3 on classic maps, i'd recommend 3v3 bigez with like 2x5mins, it's a really fun map for 3v3, plenty of space, really fluid, playing smart gives you a big advantage and you absolutely have to defend with 3 players if you want to keep a CS (would happen way more frequently than u would think).

P.S. pkp, if you have nothing constructive to say to add to the discussion, don't say anything at all, please.

[P4ER]

6-6 huge 2 def rules, cuz goal line so small even for 4 def

Teams wc with 4 players every 2 matchdays so you want to add 2 more? lol how long this league will take, a year?

[supernatural]

just because you are playing fs for 24 hours don't say that 4v4 big is boring and dying. it's still best mode. stop recommending this futsal and real soccer shit to be here in feedme. the only people who plays these mods are 12 yo kids. seriously, go to any futsal room even go find best futsal player of all time, he can't even move the ball in classic, but go find an average good player in classic or big and play futsal with him he can still play against you because DEFAULT MAPS makes you good in this game.

also I agree with 5v5 huge, but not futsal or rs shit

the reason I dont like futsal = ball is smaller and players are faster than default maps and i see they are spamming more than big players, so?
the reason I dont like real soccer = the map is fucking huge and there is no walls, who needs a map without walls seriously? what we gonna do? pass all day long and call it creativeness?

[Nana8]

Everything was better when we were younger tbh.

[Vidalo]

the reason I dont like real soccer = the map is fucking huge and there is no walls, who needs a map without walls seriously? what we gonna do? pass all day long and call it creativeness?

No shitty spam, no walls = only pass precision and movement, creativity is only in your brain, not in your walls

[Ter]

Well I don’t think ure right about the futsal thing, for myself I’d say that if the league would somehow turn into a futsal mode, I would retire and won’t come back (till now I couldn’t do that but futsal just gives boredom to my life)

If the league "would somehow turn into a futsal mode", then that would be because the majority of players would prefer futsal over big at that point in time. If that happens, then it would mean that futsal was more than welcomed. I don't see why you would retire and not come back just because of futsal, since the map actually 'invites' you to try out new passes, new tactics and so on, because I'm sure you haven't played it as long as you've played big. Now, I'm not saying that I want FM to turn into a futsal league, I'm just recommending adding a futsal division on the side, maybe replacing the 3v3 one as essentially no division 1 team plays in it.

Futsal is more popular because it is simply more casual.
Of course there will be more casual players than competitive players.

This is true, futsal is way more popular than big but the quality of players is also lower in comparison to FM as it is more casual like you said. However there are some players that started from futsal, still play futsal and now play big as well - I have two of them in my team, Girl and Madness. Players from FM would make the futsal map even more competitive. Also regarding what Laki said about there being a ranked system in some leagues - that is true, it works through a discord bot called ELO. 8 players queue up, 2 players are chosen randomly as captains, they pick other players from the queue, and there's even a discord bot that generates hosts. Pretty cool if you ask me.

In the end, I don't see why a futsal division shouldn't be introduced, possibly even replacing the 3v3 division. Again, the 3v3 division is really casual, it only has one Div1 team in it, and every time we play, we play as if it's a pub game. Now, if we want more competition, then I suggest scratching the 3v3 division and replacing it with futsal. There are FM players that like futsal, I don't see why not. It's also a chance to freshen the league up, to try out something new and possibly, hopefully, exciting and fun.

Where is this organized? Is there a leaderboard?

[Lyreco]

just because you are playing fs for 24 hours don't say that 4v4 big is boring and dying. it's still best mode. stop recommending this futsal and real soccer shit to be here in feedme. the only people who plays these mods are 12 yo kids. seriously, go to any futsal room even go find best futsal player of all time, he can't even move the ball in classic, but go find an average good player in classic or big and play futsal with him he can still play against you because DEFAULT MAPS makes you good in this game.

also I agree with 5v5 huge, but not futsal or rs shit

the reason I dont like futsal = ball is smaller and players are faster than default maps and i see they are spamming more than big players, so?
the reason I dont like real soccer = the map is fucking huge and there is no walls, who needs a map without walls seriously? what we gonna do? pass all day long and call it creativeness?

When you compare classic to futsal, classic is boring as fuck, it's clear you have never really paid attention to futsal itself as you stated that people on futsal spam more than people on big, and that's straight up bullshit. You can't look for any good players in public cause the main league right now is BFF, and they don't have public rooms. Also the futsal rooms that are up in public have the shit map, not the map the main league plays with. For guys that are interested in this BFF league, here's the discord, and if u need any help with the bot you can pm me about it @Ter - https://discord.gg/PSzcWHY
Trust me guys futsal is much more fun than classic!

[Gary]

A few weeks ago we actually discussed opening a poll for captains/co-captains to vote on futsal replacing the 3v3 league, but this probably won't open until after mid-season.

3v3 has been on a slow decline - there possibly wouldn't have been a 3v3 league this season if it weren't for the new teams participating, so I agree that something needs to change, but I'm not sure if introducing a 3v3 futsal league would attract more teams as the competitive scene looks to be mostly 4v4. Maybe a 4v4 futsal league to replace 3v3 could work.

Also, 3v3 is commonly used for teams to use players who were benched in 4v4, so perhaps there would need to be a rule that teams need to play x amount of players in both modes. (say 5 for now as it's the minimum requirement).

I thought about the idea of combining both Div1 and Div2 leagues together, so 26 teams in 1 division using this ssn as an example, but then splitting these 26 teams into 4 groups of 6 / 7 / 6 / 7 teams. Then each team in these small groups play each other once and then a promo/relegation match for first place in group 2/3/4 vs last place in 1/2/3. Then awarding eg. "Season 27 First Quarter Champions" to the group winner. So in the 4th quarter you could possibly have a team from group 4 winning the league if they promote through each small group..... don't know how feasible this would be as league stats might have to be reset each time... probably 4 separate divisions would be better.

Just throwing these ideas out there - would like some feedback for polls etc,.

[Lyreco]

A few weeks ago we actually discussed opening a poll for captains/co-captains to vote on futsal replacing the 3v3 league, but this probably won't open until after mid-season.

3v3 has been on a slow decline - there possibly wouldn't have been a 3v3 league this season if it weren't for the new teams participating, so I agree that something needs to change, but I'm not sure if introducing a 3v3 futsal league would attract more teams as the competitive scene looks to be mostly 4v4. Maybe a 4v4 futsal league to replace 3v3 could work.

Also, 3v3 is commonly used for teams to use players who were benched in 4v4, so perhaps there would need to be a rule that teams need to play x amount of players in both modes. (say 5 for now as it's the minimum requirement).

I thought about the idea of combining both Div1 and Div2 leagues together, so 26 teams in 1 division using this ssn as an example, but then splitting these 26 teams into 4 groups of 6 / 7 / 6 / 7 teams. Then each team in these small groups play each other once and then a promo/relegation match for first place in group 2/3/4 vs last place in 1/2/3. Then awarding eg. "Season 27 First Quarter Champions" to the group winner. So in the 4th quarter you could possibly have a team from group 4 winning the league if they promote through each small group..... don't know how feasible this would be as league stats might have to be reset each time... probably 4 separate divisions would be better.

Just throwing these ideas out there - would like some feedback for polls etc,.

3v3 futsal?? Thats awful. We meant 4v4 futsal ^^

[LaggerMet]

A few weeks ago we actually discussed opening a poll for captains/co-captains to vote on futsal replacing the 3v3 league, but this probably won't open until after mid-season.

3v3 has been on a slow decline - there possibly wouldn't have been a 3v3 league this season if it weren't for the new teams participating, so I agree that something needs to change, but I'm not sure if introducing a 3v3 futsal league would attract more teams as the competitive scene looks to be mostly 4v4. Maybe a 4v4 futsal league to replace 3v3 could work.

Also, 3v3 is commonly used for teams to use players who were benched in 4v4, so perhaps there would need to be a rule that teams need to play x amount of players in both modes. (say 5 for now as it's the minimum requirement).

I thought about the idea of combining both Div1 and Div2 leagues together, so 26 teams in 1 division using this ssn as an example, but then splitting these 26 teams into 4 groups of 6 / 7 / 6 / 7 teams. Then each team in these small groups play each other once and then a promo/relegation match for first place in group 2/3/4 vs last place in 1/2/3. Then awarding eg. "Season 27 First Quarter Champions" to the group winner. So in the 4th quarter you could possibly have a team from group 4 winning the league if they promote through each small group..... don't know how feasible this would be as league stats might have to be reset each time... probably 4 separate divisions would be better.

Just throwing these ideas out there - would like some feedback for polls etc,.

Maybe a better solution for div 1 is NBA format. Seasons will be long but interesting and will have great climax

[GirlontaR]

A few weeks ago we actually discussed opening a poll for captains/co-captains to vote on futsal replacing the 3v3 league, but this probably won't open until after mid-season.

3v3 has been on a slow decline - there possibly wouldn't have been a 3v3 league this season if it weren't for the new teams participating, so I agree that something needs to change, but I'm not sure if introducing a 3v3 futsal league would attract more teams as the competitive scene looks to be mostly 4v4. Maybe a 4v4 futsal league to replace 3v3 could work.

Also, 3v3 is commonly used for teams to use players who were benched in 4v4, so perhaps there would need to be a rule that teams need to play x amount of players in both modes. (say 5 for now as it's the minimum requirement).

I thought about the idea of combining both Div1 and Div2 leagues together, so 26 teams in 1 division using this ssn as an example, but then splitting these 26 teams into 4 groups of 6 / 7 / 6 / 7 teams. Then each team in these small groups play each other once and then a promo/relegation match for first place in group 2/3/4 vs last place in 1/2/3. Then awarding eg. "Season 27 First Quarter Champions" to the group winner. So in the 4th quarter you could possibly have a team from group 4 winning the league if they promote through each small group..... don't know how feasible this would be as league stats might have to be reset each time... probably 4 separate divisions would be better.

Just throwing these ideas out there - would like some feedback for polls etc,.

Maybe a better solution for div 1 is NBA format. Seasons will be long but interesting and will have great climax

I agree with the NBA format part, but why only div1, just put all teams in 2 "conferences" and let them play against each and every team twice then a playoff system with top 8 or top 4 from each conference qualifying for it, just like in nba.